Barrister Joe Asogwa was very close with Jim Nwobodo when it comes to the issue of politics. He knows him inside out and could hazard
and predict Nwobodo’s political actions. In this damning interview with our Editor in Chief, Mr. Harrison Ogara, Asogwa said that his
political experience with Nwobodo exposed his unreliability, faithlessness and slippery character. He further described the current
move by Nwobodo from his PDP to APC as a peculiar mess, what the Yorubas would call “Penkelemesi”. He also spoke about Senator
Fidelis Okoro, Ifeanyi Ugwuanyi and the hopelessness of the fight for Adada State. Enjoy it!
Quest: For sometimes now, you have been very quiet. What is going on politically in your All Progressives Congress (APC)
Ans: Yes I know! Nonetheless, it is all part of the game. As it is, the real activists in the field now are the younger people who apparently appear to be unconcerned about the views of the elders. In a case such as this, the best is to step aside so they can also have a feel of the action. I remember, I was very active during the campaign and during the election proper. In those days, I worked very closely with the governorship candidate of our party, Chief Okey Ezea as his Director of Administration.
Quest: What did you make out of that election not minding that the matter which was in court had been dispensed with?
Ans: Dispensed with?
Quest: Yes! Your candidate has already withdrawn the matter from the Court of Appeal.
Ans: Ok, that's true but you are aware that the matter between the Governor, Ugwuanyi and Senator Ayogu Eze is still pending in the Supreme Court. If eventually the Supreme Court orders for a rerun, then we will join the fray. So, it is not completely over yet. The judgment was meant to have been delivered on January 15th but it was like they could not do so.
Quest: Are you not bothered about the quantum of crisis tearing your party, the APC, apart since before the election and even after the election? There had been accusations and counter accusations about diversion of funds meant for the campaigns and all that. Outstanding of it all was the one against the APC Guber candidate, Chief Okey Ezea.
Ans: Noooooo! All these have been straightened out by the stakeholders of the party. You know, in Enugu State, Chief Okey Ezea was the oxygen that powered the party. He was the sole financier of the party. So, when people talk about money that came from Abuja, I see people who are given to mischief. Mischief because the money that came from Abuja was a pea nut compared to the personal fund brought by Chief Ezea. If those who are in the party feign ignorance of it, then there is trouble for them.
I spoke about mischief because all the noise you heard about money diversion started coming immediately after the APC won the presidential election. When APC won the presidential election, some people who had never contributed a dime for the running of the party flew in and started accusing Okey Ezea of diverting party fund. They carried on with the campaign against Ezea so that he will be viewed by Buhari as a corrupt person. They called Okey Ezea all sorts of names but the beauty of all these is that Ezea did not divert any dime.
Unknown to these people accusing him of diverting fund, Ezea had all the documents showing payments made with signatories of all those who collected money attached there to. He was summoned to Abuja to address the National leadership of the party and after his presentation; he was seen to be transparent in disbursement of party fund. His accusers were put to shame at that meeting because after his presentation, the National Leadership of APC openly noted that the party was owing Chief Ezea.
Those who were accusing him all these while were persons who were jostling to be made ministers and they felt that the best way to go about it was to get Chief Okey Ezea out of the way through bare-faced blackmail and perfidy. But as God would have it, none of those persons was made a minister. What we rather saw was the emergence of someone who had never even been a member of the party being appointed a minister. So, their actions had a collateral damage to even people who had worked for the party with all their might.
Quest: Very recently your party in Enugu State had her stakeholders' meeting convened by the Minister. Were you part of it?
Ans: Yes and no! Yes because, I was with them in spirit and no because I was not physically present in the meeting.
Quest: You must have been excited that your party had in attendance to that meeting some big political shots in the state who came in to join the party. These are people like Chief Jim Nwobodo, Senator Fide Okoro and Barrister Peter Okonkwo. What is your take in all these?
Ans: (cuts in) What are they coming to APC to do? What motive led them to attend a meeting in which they were not invited? The elections are over and world over, once the election comes to an end, whatever was associated to it goes into limbo. It will continue to be like that until the next time table for another election comes up. You ask yourself: what are they going to contribute to APC before the next election? The proper time to show your genuine support or membership of a party is during the period the party is struggling to stay afloat. That is when the party values each member's role. Certainly not after the election or after it has won the election and you fly in to say you are joining the party.
Did you listen to what Jim Nwobodo said? He said he has not come into the party to displace anybody. Can you imagine that kind of statement? It is horrible and unbecoming of a politician in the stature of Jim Nwobodo.
Quest: I think he was right to say so because people would misconstrue his coming in as one seeking to take over the party. I think he was just trying to clear the air that he has no ulterior motive or intensions to seek for any appointment….
Ans: (Ahhhh) What appointment does he want to have that he has not had before? No problem, let's keep watching them. But mark my word! Their actions could best be described as a gimmick. They have their own programme. We know them and their antecedents. They have a game plan which is quite different from that of the party. To tell the truth, APC in Enugu State does not need people like them now. We will need them when the bell goes for another election and not now that we are sharing positions.
Quest: In the build up to 2019, you need to have big fishes in the mould of Nwobodo and Okoro to be able to displace the PDP in Enugu state and the proper time in my own thinking is now…..
Ans: That is balderdash! How are you sure that these people you are talking about will remain with APC till 2019? How are you sure they will be with you till that time? Having them now is not an assurance that we shall have them tomorrow.
Quest: Are you part of those who allege that Nwobodo and his friends are “food is ready” politicians?
Ans: Oh! I am happy someone has already given them that baptism. But let me tell you that they have their individual reasons that pushed then to come into APC. Some may have come to see if they could be saved from the impending hammer from the Economic and Financial Crimes Commission (EFCC). They are afraid that if they are sent to jail again they will die there. They know the crimes they committed in the past and they have come to see if the membership of APC will give them some respite. In them are those who want to be in any party provided they achieve their aim. They have been members of several parties in the past and they have no shame again.
Quest: Do you still classify Senator Fide Okoro as the same with Jim Nwobodo?
Ans: If you recall very well, Fide Okoro was and is still a disciple of Jim Nwobodo. He served as a Commissioner under Jim Nwobodo. So you can comfortably say that two of them are of a similar mould. It is true that Fide Okoro has been giving the APC some hidden support. Now that he has come out in the open, let us see how it goes. Something happened that day. Someone in the gallery was said to have referred to him as a new member but to show the contrary, he dipped his hands into his pocket and brought out his membership card which originated from Abuja not from his Nru Nsukka ward. I am very sure that if you search him very well, he has the PDP membership card with him. So he brings out one depending on the demand of the moment.
Quest: Some years ago, you were said to have contested the governorship seat of the old Anambra State but somehow Jim Nwobodo outsmarted you. What actually happened?
Ans: It was not just Nwobodo and I. There was C.C. Onoh, Charles Abangwu and one Austin Ezenwa who is late now. It was in 1979. We were all gunning for the guber slot of the then Nigeria People's Party (NPP). It is a very long story.
I was the first leader of NPP in the old Anambra which comprises of Enugu, Anambra and Ebonyi States. That time, the national politics revolved around the Constituent Assembly of which I was a member. And Alhaji Waziri was always at the lobby of the Assembly building. His job then was to mobilize and woo people to key into his political vision. At the end of the day's session, he would come down to Satellite town campaigning and I eventually found myself as one of his followers. There were tripartite committees that fused together to form the NPP. One is a body called the Progressives, then the National Union and Club 19. These bodies nominated three secretaries of which I emerged as one of them. The others were Paul Unongo and Nduka Eze from Asaba.
When we were forming this party, Jim Nwobodo was no where.
Quest: The NPP?
Ans: Yes!
Quest: What about the Great Zik of Africa?
Ans: Zik was nowhere either. He had already said he was no longer interested in politics and had decided to remain a father to the nation. But I would like us to leave that matter for another day.
So, on one occasion around October 1978, Jim Nwobodo was in Cameroon with the Rangers Football Club for a match which they won. He was then the chairman of Rangers FC and he took them to Cameroon for a match. I was in Onitsha that same day launching the NPP. At the end of the launching, I checked into Paramount Hotel in Onitsha. At about mid night that day, someone knocked at the door of my hotel room and as I opened the door, the person I saw was Jim Nwobodo. I was shocked to see him there at that hour and considering that we had no previous arrangement to meet. Nonetheless, I was happy to see him. We embraced each other right there at the door.
When we got talking, I told him we had just finished celebrating the victory of Rangers and that I was surprised to see him. He told me to leave Rangers and that he had come for something more important. He said he had come to join my party, the NPP and asked if I would allow him to come in?
That was Jim talking. He is still alive today to corroborate or dispute what I am saying. Yet surprised, I said: Jim how can you be asking me this question about whether I would allow you to be part of my party? I told him that we came to Onitsha to hunt for new members and here he was asking me if I would allow him to be part of it. I embraced him once again and told him that he was already in.
When we continued the discussion, he asked me if I could introduce him to Alhaji Waziri who was the national leader of the party. I told him there was no problem. We agreed to move to Lagos to meet with Alhaji Waziri. By that time, flights from Enugu to Lagos was N28 only. So, on the appointed date, I got to the airport and was waiting for him having bought the tickets for both of us. I waited for him until the boarding announcement came. I therefore considered that Jim was no longer interested in the deal and then boarded the plane alone.
When I landed in Lagos, I drove straight to Waziri's house. Lo and behold, seated with Waziri was Jim Nwobodo. The man who begged that I should introduce him to Waziri arrived Waziri's house before me. The funny thing that happened was that immediately I opened the door, Waziri said, “Ahhha Joe welcome, please come in and meet our new big fish, Jim Nwobodo”. I stood speechless! Waziri said “Please work with him, work with him….”. I sat down without uttering a word. I was watching the game being played by Jim. Sensing my worry, Jim said, “my brother, sit down, you are welcome. You know this is politics blab la bla. For me, that was the first bite I had of his character.
As I was to talk, Waziri interjected and said, “yes, yes let's work with Jim because he will help us raise fund for the party”. You know Waziri was the major financier of the party at that time. I said “that's okay but…”. And Waziri asked “but what?” I said “Jim, why did you do this without letting me know?
That was how Jim drew a battle line against me. As we spoke, I still had the flight ticket which I bought for him in Enugu.
From there, Jim, Sam Mbakwe, M. T. Mbu and RBK Okafor started talking with Zik at Onuiyi Nsukka without the knowledge of the leader of the party. They wanted him to come into the party and the discussion was taking place in November 1978. Shortly thereafter, we had our convention here in Enugu and Waziri flew in from Maiduguri and in the evening, after the convention, we all retired to our Hotel Presidential rooms. In that hotel, we were to have a meeting of the stakeholders and when all the leaders from across Nigeria were seated, I came into the hall but to my greatest surprise, Jim raised an issue and the issue was that if I, Joe Asogwa was allowed to sit down in the hall, he would take his leave. I had never been so embarrassed.
Quest: But you were still the leader of the party at that time?
Ans: Yes! I was. When he made the observation, I was again shocked. I asked Jim what his problem was but he started saying strange things. At a point, one of the national officers cut in and asked him to leave the hall if he so wished. When I sat down at the high table, I was expecting him to take his leave but he kept quiet. I did not talk to him again as the fight pitched him against other members. When he lost the bid to embarrass me, he sat down and never made further comments and the meeting continued.
At the end of the meeting, Waziri asked me to take him to Nsukka the next morning to pay a courtesy call on Zik. Very early in the morning, we left for Nsukka in my car. I then had a brand new Peugeot 504 station wagon. When we arrived at Zik's house at Onuiyi, Nsukka, we passed the first and second gates and someone told us that Zik was not in the house. I was personally surprised to hear that because I had earlier discussed with him and informed him that Waziri would be coming to see him at the end of the convention at Enugu which he obliged. Alhaji Waziri who obviously was also surprised at the news that Zik was not in, turned and looked at me. We also called a cook in his house who hailed from Obimo and told him that we were on invitation by Zik to see him but he also told us that Zik was not in. Waziri looked at me again and smiled. It was clear that he had instructed that we should not be allowed in.
Unknown to us, he was at that time holding a meeting Jim Nwobodo, K. O. Ozumba Mbadiwe, RBK Okafor, M. T. Mbu, Paul Unongo and others right there in his house at Onuiyi. But while we were there in Zik’s House, Waziri told me the he knew Zik very well having served under him for sometime and said that he was sure that Zik was inside his house but was not willing to see us.
I said no; there is no way he could be in and refuse to see us but Waziri looked at me again and smiled.
Quest: He had seen that you did not understand the game.
Ans: Obviously yes but my point was that we had earlier discussed this with Zik and to me, it was not possible that Zik will ask us to come only to lie to us that he was not in. Maybe I did not fully understand what was going on. On that note, we drove off and from there he requested that I take him to Jos, Plateau State to attend a party meeting.
When I asked him that it was proper that we go back to Enugu to disperse those at the Airport waiting for him, he said there was no need for that. I did not know that he had already sensed that Jim was part of the meeting in Zik's house. From that point, I really discovered the kind of personality Jim Nwobodo is.
A week later, and precisely the last week of November 1978, we had a National Convention at Lagos, it was also a very big drama. Unknown to us, these persons organized and brought Zik to a hotel in Ikoyi, very close to the venue of the convention. When the time for nomination came, it was war. Everybody knew that Waziri formed the party and so there was never a time we thought that anybody would come from nowhere to hijack it.
Of course, it was obvious that Alhaji Waziri was to be the presidential candidate of the party until we got to the meeting and started seeing strange faces round about us. It was also apparent that the then chairman of the party, Adeniran Ogunsanya had been compromised and was in constant touch with Zik.
While we were at the venue of the convention, he was exchanging notes with Zik unknown to him that some Hausa men were watching him closely. When he did another note that will be taken to Zik, a group of men jacked him up to seize the note. Rather than give them the note, Ogunsanya, to our wildest imagination, squeezed the note and threw it into his mouth. Trust the Hausa men, they all went for his throat to force him to vomit the note. At the same time, one of those who was supporting Zik, Uguru Nwa Oloto deliberately cut the microphone wire just to make it impossible to hear anything from anybody. It was a rowdy session. When he vomited the note, it showed that he had penciled down Zik's name as the presidential candidate without his being present at the venue. As soon as Oloto cut the wire, I rushed out to pick up a battery powered mega phone to assist us conclude the meeting. When I came back to the venue of the convention, it was already a free for all. The fight was such that everybody ran for dear life.
Be that as it may, they were right to an extent because, Alhaji Waziri was working to make sure he emerged as the National Chairman of the party and also the presidential candidate. One of the reasons given for this was that he did not want anybody to sabotage his effort and already he had seen that Ogunsanya had jumped ship and sold out.
Our members suggested that we should go to court but Waziri said we should not go to court and that we should start shopping for a new name. I raised objection arguing that we cannot form a party, gave it a footing in Nigeria, only for a few persons to come and usurp and hijack it few months to election, but I was still over ruled by Waziri who said we should leave it for God and that we should play politics without bitterness. That was how the phrase 'politics without bitterness' came to be.
At that point, the part was split. Ogunsanya took NPP and joined Zik whereas Waziri was left in the cold to form another one. It was in the process that he suggested that we simply add letter 'G' before NPP to form what eventually became Great Nigeria People's Party (GNPP). That was also how Zik and Jim became presidential and governorship candidates in NPP.
To buttress further how terrible Jim Nwobodo can be, when we started Adada State Movement in 1981, he was then a governor and when he heard that the people of Nsukka zone were agitating to have a state of their own, he (Jim Nwobodo) came on television and made caricature of the agitation. He was sitting on a swiveling chair and said: “I heard that the people of Nsukka are asking for their own state, haaaaa, my village Awkunawnaw will also be asking for their own state”. I could not stomach such insult to my people. For our brothers in the other parts of Enugu, they think the area marked out as Nsukka Zone is just a village or at best one local government Area. They see the people of Nsukka zone as a local government even when they know that we are more than them in population.
Research shows that Nsukka cultural zone (with Isi Uzo) has 51 percent of the total population of Enugu State while those of them in Enugu have 49 percent. But because they want us to remain perpetually in the minority, they removed Isi Uzo and put them in Nkanu to give them a status of a senatorial zone. With this arrangement, Isi Uzo will perpetually be in the minority against the Nkanu people. Nsukka already had a status of a senatorial zone when Abakaliki, Enugu, Awka and Onitsha were senatorial zones but rather than divide Nsukka into two senatorial zones, they decided to split Enugu which is lower in population than Nsukka. This is the singular reason why all the ministers they are appointing from Enugu state are from Enugu Zone but our people are not talking. The constitution demands that after eight years of drafting the constitution, any group can apply and demand for the re-jigging of the boundaries. Here we are, no one is talking. It is very painful!
Quest: Now that we have our son as a governor, what are the chances of the creation of Adada State?
Ans: There was once a British Prime Minister who said that he has not come as Prime Minister to supervise the liquidation of British Empire. So, if you think your son will spearhead and champion the fight to carve a state from the State he is governing today just because he is your son, then you are making a great mistake. He would rather prefer to lead the entire state than new but smaller state called Adada. Yes, he may tell you that he supports the creation but the truth is that he will tell you to wait until he finishes his tenure. It is only natural no matter how you think he will be patriotic as Nwa Nsukka. Even you, when you become the governor, you would wish to have a bigger empire under you.
Quest: But the former Governor of Enugu supported the action and went ahead to set up a committee to agitate for the creation of Adada State. Don't you think he had genuine….?
Ans: (Cuts in) Please, spare me all that. I think I have a hunch about that one. I said it in the meeting of the Adada State Movement that this was a ploy by the governor to cage you people but they did not accept my theory. It was a kind of avant-garde. Can a foreigner champion a course for a people? It is quite un-natural. Have you seen a people looking for freedom and that fight is led by a foreigner? It does not happen!
Quest: So, where are we now in pursuit of Adada State?
Ans: We are at a cross-road. This is because the person who is governor and is expected to lead the fight came to power when his party is not in control of the Federal government. Because he does not belong to the party at the centre, he lacks all the privileges that are available to other governors of APC extraction. He has to behave in a manner that will not expose him as one governor that is anti APC like Jim Nwobodo did against the then Vice president, Dr. Alex Ekwueme and paid dearly for it.
